Acronym

Thanks Scott. I'm not sure we've ever carried a metaphor out to these proportions on Acronym before. If we could write a post that somehow combines Jim Collins' bus metaphor with the movie Speed, we should just close up shop here at Acronym after that, because we'd never top it.

I won't argue all of your points, because I think they're good to consider when thinking about what Collins says. I'll push back in one place though: Regarding No. 2 and why people don't adopt the advice. I'd actually count that in support of Collins' lesson. It's why he titled the chapter "First Who... Then What." His point was that personnel decisions are indeed the hardest decisions you have to make, but (correspondingly) they're also the most important. You get the personnel decisions wrong, and the rest doesn't matter. I love his energy in the video I linked to in my post; he almost yells "first who, then what."

Otherwise, your points are well taken. I'll stand by my belief, though, that, at least on its merits as an effective piece of writing, "get the right people on the bus" is hard to top.

Scott's post on the bus metaphor reminded me of what happened when the Beatles went on their "Magical Mystery Tour."

Absolutely nothing.

Now if getting the Beatles on the bus doens't make things happen, where does that leave the rest of us??

Also, the bus metaphor is best when used with the "what do we do if we get hit by one?" question.

Joe comes out of his corner this round with the glove-tap greeting, then unleashes a mid-section shot. Here's my counter:

You said "as an effective piece of writing, 'get the right people on the bus' is hard to top." And that's my whole point with reason #2 -- it's not effective. He can scream all he wants and create a great one-line euphemism and be absolutely, stunningly right in what he is saying, and still not be effective. If he were effective, then people, managers, leaders, would see that it IS so important that they would overcome reasons 1 & 2 for not having the right people working in their organizations, but in most cases, they simply don't. Oh they can't repeat the line... "Gotta have the right people on the bus" ...but he either didn't convince them that it actually was important enough or didn't teach them how to spot the wrong people.

So what do you think readers? Did Joe land his punch, or did I effectively counter? What punch would you throw, and at who?

Ok, so I'm gonna throw down on your throw down - (loves me some Joe Rominiecki). This is meant in fun so this isn't a flame in any way shape or form.... I respect your opinion and your right to have it....

However....-

1. How about that sports car? Sports cars might be fast off the line and nimble in the curves, but if a bus is faced with a sports car in a game of "who's-gonna-get-it-done chicken" the bus gets to pick sports car parts out of its grill while continuing to roll down the road.

2. You don't want to fire nice people? Don't drive the bus. If you take the responsibility of deciding who gets on and who gets off I guarantee you will fire some nice folks along the way.

3. Yeah, well who wouldn't rather have a space shuttle than a bus? The question is - how do you get there? By driving the bus TO the space dock...

4. Who said anything about anyone sitting nicely in their seats? Have you ever been on a bus?

5. Why you gotta be a bus hater? I've seen some SWEEEEET tour buses in my day. Plush digs, pumpin' stereo system, satellite TV, video game consoles, mini-kitchen and bar - and plenty of room for "guests." Party on Wayne.

Vroom vroom kids - enjoy your Wednesday.

Shelly

Ok Shelly, I'll give you point 5. The Hooptie Ride at Virginia Tech, more of a shuttle bus really, is stylin. Maybe your fourth point, but I pretty much only ride DC's Metro buses, and the poor schlubs standing are miserable. About your third point, do you take a bus to the space shuttle? Really?

But you're way off on 1 & 2. First off, the Tesla just runs circles around the bus--the bus could never get close enough to do any damage. And in terms of getting things done, it's all about speed these days, slow is dead. And your second point is making the same point I made. You have to fire nice people. Most people either plain just don't or take way too long to do so. Even worse, they don't see that the wrong people are working there to begin with. I've met and worked with some really great people. I've also met and worked with people who I have no idea how they have jobs. I'm sure you have, too. And the catch is this, I've worked with and met people in the first category (great) who manage people in the second (truly bad) and they just don't see it. I'm sure you have, too.

Ok, I'm late to the Bus-lovin' Bus-hatin' party. I left my initial comment on Joe's post.

I'm not for bus rides...I prefer bike rides where everyone is involved in their own driving and direction. That's more about participating than riding a bus. If I don't get to help decide the direction of the bus, or help build the bus, or convert the bus to natural gas, I really don't want to ride it.

Sure, a bus transports people to a pre-decided location...usually not decided by the bus riders. It was decided by the authorities. Unless, we rent a bus to take our own tour.

So how many of us enjoy a two or three-hour bus ride with 12, 15, 21, 27 other colleagues? Let alone a full year bus ride.

BTW, is Joe taking a bus on his vacation? Or is he using a plane or car?

When I first read GTG, I hated Collins' bus metaphor. So, I'm with Scott that it is not one of the best business metaphors of all time. It is overused and over rated. How effective is it really?

The bus metaphor works great for a dictator. Or a criminal that highjacks and buries a bus full of kids. Or a terrorist attack. I know. I'm being morbid. Just thinking of examples where the metaphor goes south.

So I say, "Just say no!" Oh, wait, that's a different buzz phrase from a different campaign. H-m-m, how effective was that non-metaphor buzz phrase?

No worries Jeff! Better late than never (cliche alert!) especially when it's as whacky as this comment! And of course I love it and wish I had made the whole passive sitting on a bus thing one of my arguments.

How about "Get the right people on the rocket ship?"

A bus has many stops and allows for people to embark/disembark. Being mission-driven; it's the moon or nothing in my book!

Wow. I love metaphors, and I love analyzing metaphors, but this is just a whole new level. I have to admit, after hearing association leaders ask over and over "Do we have the right people on the bus?" -- I am extremely tired of hearing it. I think more important questions are, "Do we have the right person driving the bus?" Or, "Did we bother to map out our direction, or are we just driving aimlessly on this bus?" Did the bus driver bother to tell the rest of us "passengers" where we are headed, or what the plan is when we get there? You can have the best people in the world, or the worst people in the world, but it won't matter if you don't clearly communicate your expectations to them. I think people in positions of authority take this for granted the vast majority of the time. They assume we "passengers" can read minds or should be able to pick up on subtle signals and figure things out. They don't bother to take the time to learn our strengths and weaknesses and care about our professional growth. They hide behind what might otherwise be a clever management metaphor created by a smart man. If you are in charge of a staff and your association is being hit hard by the recession -- and fear and doubt are swirling at every level -- it is not wise to continually ask your entire staff "Do we have the right people on the bus?" Well, unless you would prefer many otherwise excellent employees disembark from said bus and find a much more welcoming bus.

The trouble with any good metaphor is that it can become a victim of its own effectiveness.

Collins' bus metaphor was brilliant, because, when we first heard it, it created an immediate and vivid connection with a very clear and concise idea, in a compelling way that immediately "stuck" ... and was repeated, and repeated and repeated. Sometimes appropriately. Sometimes inappropriately. (I am sure we can all come up with examples of ridiculously off-base attempts to use it to mean things that it clearly didn't say.)

But no matter how good it was (or perhaps BECAUSE of how good it was) it was (pardon the pun) driven to death. The sheer volume and intensity of repetition wrung everything that made it so good at the start out of it. Where it started as something fresh that provoked immediate understanding and new insight, it has become tired, overused, misused and abused.

When a metaphor stops doing what it was intended to do, provoke an immediate and meaningful understanding, it is time to "change buses."

I don't think that takes anything away from the credit due to Collins for expressing it in the first place. But I think he would be the first to say, "If the metaphor helped when you first heard it, great. If it has stopped being helpful to meaningful understanding, it is time to move on to something else."

Getting the right people on the bus (company) doesn't necessarily care so much about other 'people' things besides what the right people in the right positions can do for the company (owner,officers &/or board $$$$)for sustainability. Morale, right treatment etcetera come in later if I recall the book correctly.